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Jason Fry and Greg Prince
Faith and Fear in Flushing made its debut on Feb. 16, 2005, the brainchild of two longtime friends and lifelong Met fans.

Greg Prince discovered the Mets when he was 6, during the magical summer of 1969. He is a Long Island-based writer, editor and communications consultant. Contact him here.

Jason Fry is a Brooklyn writer whose first memories include his mom leaping up and down cheering for Rusty Staub. Check out his other writing here.

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Oh Good Grief

If you were looking for four hours that would renew your faith in the Mets, well, boy did you pick the wrong night.

First the Mets played a thoroughly inept game against the Yankees, one in which a) they were atrocious once more with runners in scoring position; b) Steven Matz underpitched Chad Green to put them in an inescapably deep hole; c) Wilmer Flores looked awful at shortstop, a position there’s no longer any sensible reason for him to be playing; and d) Hansel Robles suffered a mental breakdown in which he became convinced Mark Teixeira was stealing signs, had conspired to kill JFK and was ordering airlines to spray mind-control chemicals on American citizens.

It wasn’t the most heartbreaking or tragic loss of the season — the Mets’ chronic shabbiness no longer deserves that emotional weight — but it was certainly an embarrassing one.

Oh, and then Yoenis Cespedes was put on the DL. Yes, the same Yoenis Cespedes who hurt his quad in early July and could have been disabled for the All-Star break, but was instead allowed to play on one leg for nearly a month, with the kind of results you’d expect from a baseball player with three working limbs. So in addition to making a panicky trade that will leave them calling audibles for 2017, the Mets have now turned a two- or three-week absence for their only real hitter into a six or seven-week absence, one that will almost certainly doom their season. Fine work all around, gentlemen.

But then we should have seen that one coming, because this is the same way the Mets handled injuries all last summer. It’s what led to Clayton Kershaw facing a lineup that looked like a time capsule from the ’94 strike. Heck, it’s the same way they’ve handled injuries for years, because of stinginess or incompetence or some combination of the two. I’d huff and puff that surely this can’t continue, but anyone who roots for this team will tell you it obviously can. At this point, the crazy thing would be to imagine that one day it will actually change.

52 comments to Oh Good Grief

  • DK

    At what point do Matz and Syndergaard get shut down because of the bone spurs? I’m not sure who takes their places in the rotation but I’d rather not risk further serious injury for no real reason.

    I also don’t really have an idea what I’m talking about and maybe they can pitch into September without real risk … but I don’t necessarily trust the Mets organization if they assure me they can pitch without repercussions.

  • eric1973

    RE: Ces: Incredible. You would think Sandy, apparently smart, calm and cool, would know better. But he doesn’t. We don’t know the trainers’ opinions, but we do know this:
    TC always says: “We are trying to keep (insert injured player’s name here) off the DL.” That’s his philosophy, and, frankly, it sucks. Barney Fife in a baseball uniform.

    We see this over and over, time after time. Mets got lucky Ces got hurt right before the All-Star break, and did not take advantage by DL’ing him then. Instead, we get no production at all for a month, and now this.

    And then TC puts him in the f*****g game on Tuesday in a 5-0 game!

  • Matt in Richmond

    eric1973 I certainly feel your frustration, but again, the plan was to DH him for the next 5 games. If he was healthy enough to do that then why in the world couldn’t he take 1 AB the night before? Now we can say maybe he wasn’t healthy enough to begin with and should have been DL’d before now, but TC isn’t a doctor!! Injuries are just part of baseball and unfortunately the Mets have suffered far more than their fair share. If one simply must find someone to blame then the only logical people to point the finger at would be the medical staff. Not the field manager.

  • eric1973

    Managers make the final on-field call, not trainers.

    Remember 2 years ago, Wright slid into 2B, and came up in obvious pain from a hamstring/leg. Everyone ran out to check him out, and TC left him in the game. Then he plays a few more days, and finally winds up on the DL.

    Also, 2 years ago, Flores tried to beat a play at 1B. He turned his ankle, and was obviously visibly in pain. Again, everyone rushes out to check on him, and he stays in the game. He plays a few more games, goes on the DL, and both their seasons are ruined.

    The word is ‘precaution,’ and the field manager has the final say on the field. Can’t always hide behind the medical staff.

    Certainly lots of blame to go around here, and TC must shoulder his share. And TC needs to tell that dummy not to play golf when he’s hurt. Instead, he endorses it.

    Sure, injuries are a part of the game, but so is malpractice, medical and otherwise.

  • Matt in Richmond

    I guess I have to concede that I’m not 100% clear on the standard operating procedures in this area. Logic would suggest that the medical staff would advise management on players conditions/availability/limitations and so forth. If medical decisions are being left up to the field manager that is bizarre and should change. The field manager has enough on his plate without having to decide if a guy is healthy enough to play or needs a dl stint.

  • eric1973

    I think we could all agree that once ‘something’ happens to a guy, this organization is doing something wrong somewhere. Lingering issues do not improve and team plays shorthanded, and the player is kept on the roster while playing sporadically and ineffectively until finally placed on DL. Legares was expected to play with a torn thumb. Game is tough enough to play while healthy.

  • Dave

    Day 1:Jay Bruce doesn’t have to carry the team. Day 3: If Bruce doesn’t carry the team, they’re dead.

    Eric is 110% right…it seems as though every day the Mets are playing with an available roster of 23 or 24. If Yo and Lagares had been taken care of when they should have been, they’d both be back and healthy by now or very soon. Instead we’re heading for what could be very painful dog days of summer with neither. And let’s hope that at some point in 2017 or beyond we don’t have to wish that Thor and Matz had gotten the bone spurs taken care of sooner. Tell me what it is a training staff does…who makes these calls based on what information?

  • Steve K

    I agree with the premise of this discussion. I won’t call out names b/c I don’t know the “chain of command” regarding playing through injuries, but something has to change. Their current “policies” border on irresponsible.

    Getting back to the game…I posted the below in the previous thread, but since that post was per the prior game, here goes…

    OK, regarding Wednesday’s contest vs. the Yankees:

    The 7th inning summed up what ails them. Down 6-3, they place runners on 1st and 2nd with none out. And, their 3-4-5-6 hitters were coming up.

    What happens: NONE of them could hit the ball out of the infield. If not for NYY’s 3Bman botching a DP ball, they’d not have scored at all. As it turned out, the only run scored on an infield grounder. And, don’t get me started on not scoring any more runs in the 1st inning after loading the bases with none out. Just another example of this systemic inability to get the clutch hit.

    “Editor’s” Note from this morning: OK, I’ll give Ces a pass b/c if his injury prevented him from batting effectively, but if that’s the case, why was he playing?

    And, then, another baffling move by the manager. Matz is on a roll, at only 91 pitches. Had thrown four shutout innings after giving up 6. So, defying logic, TC takes him out. Yankees score three runs. Game over.

    You can make all the trades you want, but until someone can teach these players the proper hitting approach with RISP, and until TC improves his game management, this team will continue to struggle.

    It’s getting painful to watch…

  • Ken K. in NJ

    The Robles Teixiera thing was fun to watch. At that point I was so disgusted (a term I only use 3 or 4 times a year, although I think I’m up to 12 already this year) I was rooting for a complete Robles meltdown.

    I don’t recall ever seeing anything like that ever, where one player was so visibly mocking another on the playing field. I’ll bet they did sh*t like that all the time in like the 1920’s, but in 2016 it was truly unique. I don’t blame Teixera at all. He saw a chance to get in Robles’ head, and he walked right in.

    • Steve D

      Great point…the morning after, it is clear Teixiera was going out of his way to embarrass the Mets and I can’t recall a similar action. In the past, that would call for a visit to the barber.

      • sturock

        Instead, a Yankee pitcher will dust off a Met in return for Matz’s HBP of Teixeira. It’ll happen in the Mets’ last turn at bat when they have no chance to retaliate, which, granted, likely bothers fans more than the players.

      • Rochester John

        That’s the << .198 hitting >> Mark Teixeira going out of his way to embarrass the Mets. I sure hope he ends up on his ass tonight.

        • DAK442

          If you want to make the playoffs, you need to beat up on the shit teams. And we have lost two out of three to a .500 club that just traded their best hitter and top two relievers, waving a white flag on the season. You’d think they would be demoralized and easy to beat, with a #3 hitter well under the Mendoza, as well as a bunch of other guys hovering around there. No, we can’t throw a damn fastball by Teixeira, a shell of himself, and he is killing us this series.

          It is pathetic that we continue to leave men on like this. What a bunch of gutless wonders. I think it was Bobby V who said guys need to change their approach. How many more times do we have to see a guy ground out to short or 2B instead of shortening his swing, or trying to hit a damn sac fly?

  • Dennis

    The criticism of Sandy/medical staff not placing Cespedes earlier on the DL is fair. As far as Terry goes? Fuck it…..I’ll be one of his defenders regarding this. I’m certainly not an expert (like so many others here), not privy to medical information and not exactly sure what the protocol is, but if he’s not on the DL and in the dugout then he can be used. Plain and simple. If one of the games at CitiField had gone extra innings and Cespedes was sitting on the bench while the Mets lost, Collins would have been bashed for that.

    As far as the manager telling “that dummy” not to play at his golf outing, that may have flown back in the 50’s & 60’s, but with the MLB players association being one of the strongest unions in the world, a manager can barely tell them what to do at the ballpark.

    • Rob E.

      I’m down with Dennis on this. When you look at what has gone on, this is not Terry Collins’ doing. They are missing 3/4 of their opening day infield, and they’ve lost various other players along the way. And Harvey on top of that. The injury criticisms are valid in an organizational sense — this has LONG been a head-scratcher (look at what happened with Beltran) — but Collins can’t just not use guys with question marks or else we’d never see Cespedes, Harvey, Matz, Syndergaard, or Wright. Cespedes seems to have no problem saying when he CAN’T play, why should TC disregard it when he says he CAN? These are multi-million dollar ADULT athletes. At some point they have to take ownership of their career and what they can (or can’t) contribute to their TEAM.

      They have not underperformed because of managerial decisions, they have underperformed because injuries have killed them, and players have not executed. The entire offense is guilty here. Matz’ rough patch and Familia’s & Harvey’s struggles and the across-the-board sucking with RISP are NOT the manager’s doing. The game the other day is a microcosm of how fans overreact…Blevins and Reed fail to hold a 2-run lead, and it’s Collins’ fault for putting either one in. A negative outcome doesn’t necessarily mean the thought process was flawed.

  • Daniel

    Quad is a nagging injury. Should be rested entirely for at least two weeks. That should have happened a month ago

  • Steve D

    The golf issue will be blown up today I’m sure. I have no idea how often he plays golf. I’d rather him be up in the morning early to play golf than partying all night. That said, IMO it would be prudent not to play everyday and certainly never to play with any baseball related injury. If he played three times a week, I have no problem with it. Anything else, I have concerns, but you also want to keep this guy happy. Pissing him off about golf may be a bad idea also.

  • Jacobs27

    Every decision-maker is complicit in this wishful thinking Mets approach to injuries. And each time it happens, they become more complicit. They learn nothing. Maybe Terry is only a small link in the chain, but if I ever hear him say something to the effect of “I asked him how he felt and he said he was good to go” as an explanation/justification for playing an injured player, then he deserves as much blame as all the others. It’s so basic.

    Also, you’re right, Jason. Embarrassing is the word for that game. Shameful.

  • Steve K

    One more thing about Ces’ quad. While, as an amateur runner, I’m hardly in his class as an athlete, I’ll share a story. Last month, I started feeling something in my hamstring. Timeline follows.

    1. I tried to run though it at reduced mileage/at a slow pace for about a week. It did not improve.

    2. I finally took about a week off.

    3. When I came back, it felt much better. Even so, I was cautious in adding mileage and, even more so speed.

    I’m just glad I was not under the direction of the Mets, b/c they would have told me to “run through it” rather than take that week off. :)

  • Jacobs27

    That being said, the DL is ultimately Sandy’s call, theoretically in consultation with the medical staff (so-called), so they’re the ones I would like an explanation from. But I’m not holding my breath.

  • Dave

    Yeah, Teixeira deserves to be obnoxious and arrogant, what with that princely .198 batting average. When he got hit last night my reaction to his drama was “dude, don’t flatter yourself, you’re not important enough to hit on purpose.” Now, oh boy, would I love to see Bart’s 1st pitch to him put him on his outsized posterior.

  • sturock

    This happens no matter who the GM is, who the manager is, and it’s been happening for years. Does ownership have something to do with it? There is always a desperation around this team, there never seems to be a plan, or a reserve of useful players in the minor leagues. Yeah, every once in a while, they pull through, like the last two months of 2015. But most of the time, this is what it is and at some point we are looking at Ice Williams, Argenis Reyes, Justin Ruggiano, whoever.

    Now, all of a sudden, there are five LH outfielders: Bruce, Conforto, De Aza, Granderson, Nimmo. At least, Nimmo and De Aza can play CF. But what’s up with that?

    Other teams have answers in their minor leagues. Look at the Cardinals, look at the Giants, the Cubs, the Rangers.

    What’s up with the Mets? Why can’t they develop players? What is going on down there?

    But I digress. Collins is managing for his job. He is going to run those veterans out there until they fall apart. Who knows? Maybe Alderson is on thin ice too. No one ever seems to be looking at the long-term health of this organization.

    Can’t wait until next spring, when mgmt will be talking up David Wright’s “courageous comeback” with no one waiting in the wings when the inevitable occurs.

    • Rob E.

      Collins is not managing for his job. He signed a two-year extension, he’s 67, and he said that would be it. He’ll get paid either way and I don’t think he give’s a rat’s ass beyond that. And Alderson isn’t going anywhere either (not for performance issues, anyway….but he is also close to 70).

      Like the team of the first half last year, this is a team decimated by injuries. It’s not that someone gets hurt and there’s no backup, even their BACKUPS have gone down. Lagares was the OF backup. Flores (who did a DL stint), was the IF backup. They weren’t counting on losing Wright AND Duda (and now Cabrera). They weren’t counting on losing Lagares and having injury issues with Cespedes (and performance issues with Conforto). You can only cover your ass so much with a 25-man roster.

      These are not issues that carry forward (Wright notwithstanding). Duda, Harvey, and Cespedes should be healthy in 2017, and Matz’ and Syndergaard’s bone spur issues should be taken care of as well. If they are NOT, and if Conforto regresses, then yeah, they have holes to fill. And they will have to deal with 2B if Walker leaves. But coming into this year we were counting on ALL of them, and we’ve had issues with ALL of them (Syndergaard not so much, though he has tailed off). Also, their RISP performance should bounce back closer to the norm (because that’s what numbers like that do over the long term).

      With health, this is the same team that went to the WS minus the difference between Murphy & Walker. They have underperformed for sure, but the same young core is still intact. It’s not like we’re looking at a rebuild here.

      • sturock

        I hear you, but what young core? We have three stud pitchers– Thor, Matz, Jacob. We have Familia. We have no young, core offensive players. That’s my problem with the Mets. Conforto may not be the guy. Maybe Nimmo isn’t either. d’Arnaud is a nice player but he’s so injury-prone. Where are the young position players? Look at the Cubs, look at Texas, look at the Red Sox. This is how you win.

        • Rob E.

          The question isn’t that they are not a young core, but that several of them now have question marks. Matz has regressed. Harvey has health issues. Syndergaard has bone spurs. d’Arnaud has injury concerns. Conforto had a sophomore slump. Plawecki regressed. They’re fair questions, but we won’t know until next year. Would you trade any of those guys below market value based solely on the current concerns? Or is there reasonable hope for a bounceback? These questions are what makes GM-ing a difficult job.

          The Cubs, Texas, and Red Sox are all looking good now, but they are all just one step away from dealing with what we are now. Even the GREAT and UNBEATABLE Kansas City Royals hit a wall. But talent bounces back, and there is still talent here. You don’t have to look further than the Nationals (and the flip-flop is much more than just Murphy changing sides).

  • Greg Mitchell

    Again: Ces pinchhit with team leading 5-0 or 5-1. It wasn’t a down-by-one in the ninth and maybe he can hit a dinger….Sort of like pitching Thor with ten-run lead in the 9th. You can do it but don’t be surprised if it comes back to haunt you. I’m sure you have your own list and foolish TC decisions in such matters.

    • Matt in Richmond

      Yeah, that was a completely logical move. He was planning to DH the next 5 days, and if TC had been told that he was healthy enough to do that, then getting him one plate appearance in advance of those 5 days of DH duties makes perfect sense. In addition to that, it worked perfectly, as he hit a bullet and looked good running down to first where they then pinch ran for him. The only reason to keep bringing this up is an obsession with throwing mud at TC, but logic doesn’t support your position.

      • Greg Mitchell

        One problem: after that game they said he “aggravated” the injury running out the single. The fact that TC aimed to play him further as DH doesn’t mean that was a wise decision (as, once again, we later learned).

  • Jacobs27

    Harvey’s health remains very much in question for next year. As does Wheeler’s. I wouldn’t count on Duda either. d’Arnaud? Iffy. It’s not a disaster, but there are a lot of question marks and players without a position, positions without a player. And while the hitting cannot continue at this historically atrocious pace, I’m inclined to believe that the second half of last year was an outlier as well.

    Ya gotta believe. But you gotta expect frustration with this team.

  • eric1973

    The Blevins thought process was flawed the second he stepped out of the bullpen — not based on outcome.

    Well, we are never going to see Ces, Wright, Harvey, and Duda, and I don’t trust them with Thor and Matz.

    Now I’m no golfer, but from the 5 minutes I’ve watched in my life, the golf swing is pretty violent, and appears to use every muscle in the body.

    You’d think for a 25 milllion dollar investment, management might tell him to cool it for a few weeks.

    • Rob E.

      The Blevins thing is a two-sided argument. Do you bring in your lefty to face the lefties, or do you bring in your eighth inning guy to pitch the eighth inning? Either should have done the job, but they both failed. Not Collins’ fault, and he would be criticized either way.

      You may disagree with the decision, but bringing in a lefty to face two lefties leading off the eighth inning of a 5-3 game is a completely defensible baseball move.

      • Matt in Richmond

        You said it Rob!

        • Jacobs27

          I agree with the general point, but I think it would take some serious bad faith to criticize Terry for bringing in Reed directly for that 8th inning (i.e., not going to Blevins at all). Reed was the obvious guy. Blevins was a wrinkle. There are real catch-22 situations for a manager. I don’t see this as one of them.

  • Pete the Midnight Golfer

    During the off-season, the Gnats got better. The Mets stood pat. Other teams figured out the Mets weaknesses and exploited them in 2016. Weren’t we all excited about how the rebuilding would continue and we would ascend into a dynasty? Ownership stood pat. 2 small assertions: 1) Sandy was assigned to the Mets by Bud “the Clown” Selig” as a steward or caretaker. 2) The Wilpons are inept and cheap. I think, and I regret saying it, but we got lucky in 2015. Our “shrewd” stewards stood pat in the winter of 2015.

  • Mikey

    when we had the bases loaded and nobody out, I had the thought that we Mets fans fear that more than the team in the field’s fans do. that is not good. it should not be that we score one run if we’re lucky in that situation…we should score 5-6 and put the other team away. there is no killer instinct…no one in our lineup to annoy the shit out of the other team the way Murph used to.

    I’m also weary of our starters–even our best ones–throwing 30 pitches in the first inning…and/or allowing a baserunner or two every inning.

    there are injuries, sure. but we should expect more out of the guys we’re putting out there.

    • Jacobs27

      It’s hard to complain about a staff whose overall ERA is third-best in the league. Plus, I really invidually like the big 3 still standing.

      And yet, I agree, Mikey. For young studs, they’ve sure done an awful lot of laboring, especially lately. Even though they don’t usually give up many runs, it’s often tiring when it used to be just thrilling to watch them. Deep counts, inability to put people away, base-runners, way too many stolen bases, inconsistency, inefficiency…

      Not only is it a bit of a let-down from the staff of aces we were dreaming about, but it’s particularly disappointing how often they seem to get out-pitched. (It doesn’t help that, head-to-head, the Nats’ staff actually just edges ours a little bit, in addition to their vastly better line up. As if the one-man Murphing crew wasn’t enough…)

      And, you know, theoretically we’re chasing this wild card game. A few months ago I would’ve liked our chances with deGrom or Syndergaard against any team’s ace. Now? Are we confident? What I feel is more like cautious.

      Maybe it’s bone-spurs. Hang-over from last year. All the things that were ailing Matt Harvey. Or just mid-season doldrums. Growing pains. I don’t know. But the Fantastic Four just don’t seem to have quite the same mojo that they used to. And with our anemic offense, every one of their shortcomings stands out uncomfortably. So maybe if we started hitting, took some pressure off the pitchers, they’d settle down and pitch more smoothly.

      Maybe I just need a break from watching this team for a while.

  • Left Coast Jerry

    Just a thought. The two guys that were on base before Texeira hit the home run both hit balls that Flores couldn’t quite reach. I haven’t seen enough of Matt Reynolds, but if he could have gotten to either of those balls, the inning would have been over with no runs scored.

    • Jacobs27

      Yeah, not sure Reynolds would’ve gotten them, but we’ve seen enough of Flores at short to know he has no business there in the major leagues. It’s reckless to put him out there.

  • Eric

    Jay Bruce now 0 for 8 as a Met with a bunch of RISP LOB and he just became the fulcrum of the offense.

    • Jacobs27

      Welcome to the club, Brucey!

    • Steve D

      Jay Bruce between 2014 and 2015 hit around .220. When you hit .220 for two solid years, you likely have long stretches of hitting under .200. To count on much more from him under the bright lights of NYC is being delirious. I hope not, but he could turn out to make Jason Bay, the other JB, look like a bargain.

  • Greg Mitchell

    Well, look at it this way, no one has mentioned Scott Kazmir here yet.

  • eric1973

    Wait, there was a game last nite?!

  • Cespedes' Hamstring

    I’ve seen lots of managers criticized, sometimes unfairly. But I’ve NEVER seen a manager DEFENDED, here and elsewhere, like Terry Collins is defended. His track record is dismal, his players in Anaheim and Houston hated him, he’s had one winning year with the Mets, but in the eyes of some he is almost never to blame.

    Does he have that many relatives who peruse blogs and websites to argue his case? Or is it the compromising photos thing? Or perhaps people think he’s Phil and like his music?

    Regardless, to me it’s as baffling as injuries are to the Mets medical staff. And irregardless of what any of us think, it seems highly unlikely he will be replaced before the 2017 season is completely done.

    • Rob E.

      It’s not that he is above criticism, but that he gets blamed for EVERYTHING. No players are ever held accountable when they fail, only the manager’s decision to use them (like with Blevins & Reed the other night). And the same guys that KILL him all the time, NEVER say anything positive. Criticism means nothing when all you do is criticize.

      He definitely overmanages and “button-pushes” sometimes (along with 29 other managers), but no player has quit on this guy in five years. He’s also helped keep them afloat through massive injuries the past two years (I know, I know….he CAUSED most of those injuries…I get it). That means something. Whatever happened in Houston and Anaheim (and he was almost universally described as terrible there), he learned from it, because we haven’t seen ANY of that here.

      As for having one winning year…they were gutting the team and rebuilding for four years. He was brought here to guide that transition, not win divisions 2011-2015 (he won in 2015 ANYWAY). He’s not Dave Johnson, but he’s done a good job here. I don’t know how people can look at the five-year arc of this team and look at the players he’s had available in that time and not give him one shred of credit.

  • Gil

    EVERYONE PANIC!!!!!!!!

  • Matt in Richmond

    Rob E, you nailed it once again. Especially the line “criticism means nothing when all you do is criticize.” I will also add that it annoys me that he seems to have been typecast by some who have not observed the many ways he has evolved. It is true that his two previous gigs were almost universally judged as failures, but he has been a completely different type of manager with the Mets. Just one example: somebody on here not that long ago decried that he is one of those strictly by the book managers. Completely false!! He has gone outside the box again and again these past few years. Where so many managers are scared to do anything that might draw questions from the press, he is fearless. The last point I’ll make is actually the one that may be the most important. The players seem to universally love playing for him.

    • Dave

      I’m with you and Rob, Matt. Collins took this team to the World Series last year, I’m not sure what he knew how to do then but has forgotten since. Fans most closely scrutinize the manager they see on a daily basis. There are 30 managers in baseball who make decisions that sometimes work, sometimes don’t work, some by the book, some not, but since we see TC do that 162 times a year, he’s the only one under the microscope. He spent 4 years baby sitting a team that wasn’t designed to compete, so his aggregate record is virtually meaningless. Once he had the horses, he came within 3 wins of the whole enchilada, and now, even though he’s limping along without the team’s best player, 3/4 of his Opening Day infield, his only real CF’er or the presumed ace of the staff, the team is by no means out of it. That’s saying something. Maybe this isn’t the year for this extremely banged-up team, but look at the seemingly perfect Royals, now defending their crown at 6 or 7 games under .500. Give me TC any day.

  • eric1973

    Hey, ‘Cespedes’ Hamstring,’

    Matt Collins, Dennis Collins, and Rob E. Collins appreciate the sentiment… LOL!